In the film Conclave, the unexpected death of the Pope sends Cardinal Lawrence (Ralph Fiennes) with the task of finding his replacement. The Conclave – the electoral process by which the new Pope is elected is a fascinating process explored here as a thriller directed by Academy Award Winner Edward Berger. The thrills are not conventional as the tension is built by sharp dialogue, assured direction, and precise edits by Nick Emerson. Emerson is nominated for the Academy Award For Best Film Editing, he recently spoke to Immersive via Zoom.
[This conversation has been edited for clarity and length.]
Conclave is a smart film and a real conversation starter. It’s the kind of movie you want to talk to someone about afterward… There’s so much under the surface and within the dialogue. Talk a little bit about working with material like that.
That’s one of the things that attracted me to the project when first I read the amazing script by Peter Straughan… I felt that it was a personal journey through something profound but also that it was a thriller. Balancing those two elements was a challenge and to make it entertaining as well.
Cardinal Lawrence’s (Ralph Fiennes) crisis of faith is very central to the story thematically… Are you religious?
I grew up in the north of Ireland. I went to church up until I was 14 and then I fell away from it, I suppose. In relation to Conclave, I love the idea of being able to look behind the curtain of this process. I find it fascinating, the systems and structures within the Church are just really interesting to me.
When I interviewed Edward Berger, he mentioned the work of director Alan J. Pakula (Klute, The Parallax View, All The President’s Men) as a touchpoint. How much was that discussed during this process?
100%. That was how I and Edward bonded was over those films. I’d read the script and I had thought of Klute, The Parallax View and All the President’s Men, and I mentioned them in the interview. It turned out that this was going to be his approach. He wanted to aspire to that level of craft, tension, and based around being incredibly rigorous with the construction of these things. Those films are a huge influence on me, not just in Conclave but in everything I do.
Sounds like you connected very well initially, what was the rest of the project like?
Edward is a very hands-on kind of director. We had a very close collaboration. When he was working in Rome shooting the film, I was in London. I would send the day scenes whenever I would have them ready and we’d talk. When the production wrapped, Edward was in the editing room most days – he’s so interested in the details.
We almost started to fine-cut the film from the very beginning, which I know is often not the case. We went into incredible detail in the first pass which I felt, was an incredible gift doing it this way. You get this great bird’s eye view of the structure and of how the flow of the stories work together early.
Were there any scenes in particular that were more challenging than others? Like to the complexity of the dialogue and also have it be understood in terms of what was going on?
We were gifted this amazing script, and so much was written into it already. We probably spent the most time on the first 20 minutes. You’ve got to set the tone, set up the characters, and get the plot lines going without feeling rushed.
Dialogue scenes are often the hardest to cut because there are limitless possibilities in terms of where you go in and where you go out. Edward would always question if there were too many cuts back and forth, he would say, “Why are we cutting?”
You know, and if you’re very spare with it and just go, leave it to the last minute or until you sort of feel that craving to see something else, um, or to get a reaction, you know, um, then cut. You know. What happens when you’re working with a director as open as Edward is that you get in sync with them in terms of the rhythm of the picture. By the end of the process, you have a greater understanding of where they might want to cut. Edward and I would often look at a scene and we’d say we’ve used seven shots – let’s see if we can do it in four. We had great fun distilling those scenes and sequences down.
Did you look at the original book at all or did you stay away from it?
I stayed away from it. I’ve done a few films that have been adapted from novels. I tend not to look because the script is the framework that we have to work from. Peter had done an amazing job of adapting this book. As an editor, I don’t want another voice in there. I just want to focus on what we’re doing. So much of the editing is in response to what’s on the screen. That’s what you’ve got to think about is in the box and what’s being communicated there.
Let’s talk for a moment about the music. How early did you get the score?
We had a little bit of temp music, but as an editor, I try not to put music on to film too early in the edit. I think sometimes when you put temp music into scenes, it can make them stand up a bit better than they currently are. I like them to work on their own. I had little bits of temp, but just sort of atonal things and some drones to help us through some sequences.
When Volker Bertelmann came on during the director’s cut it was very collaborative as we have worked together before. Edward did not want a traditional film score so we tried lots of things out before we finalized. Edward has very specific ideas of what he wants music to do.
Do you have any favorite scenes or moments in the movie? Anything that sticks out above anything else?
My favorite scene is when Lawrence goes to confront Cardinal Adeyemi about his past and tells him he’s not going to be Pope. In the script, they pray together and then we see Adeyemi making a vote knowing that he’s finished, but we decided to fold them into one another so that the scene ends with Adeyemi asking Lawrence to pray. I just remember looking at this frame of Lawrence saying yes from another room, and I thought that looked like somebody’s point of view.
I had this idea to cut to a big closeup of Lawrence in the Sistine Chapel. So it looks like he’s looking back on himself. From there we sort of extrapolated that idea and sort of weaved the two scenes in together. It created this interesting sort of feeling that was as if Lawrence was looking back on this discussion. It was a wonderful way of creating a third meaning, but also making a great transition to the end of the sequence.
I love cuts that transpose time and space to emotion and rhythm… Very well executed. Some movies come, and some movies go. Conclave has been very successful. How would you rate this experience now that you are almost at the end?
It’s beyond my wildest dreams. Not only do I get to make something that I’m so proud of and make it with people who are now my friends but to have the recognition as well. I’m so pleased that it’s done well at the box office because that means it’s connecting with audiences. That’s a huge pleasure for any filmmaker. The accolades are a huge honor as well.
Conclave is available to stream and is playing at select theaters.
